Mass Effect CZ Forum

od prvniho dilu jako LI jedine Liara,to,jak na me pusobila v ME1 se hold zadny jiny postave nepovedlo,takova slaba a zranitelna archeolozka proste potrebovala silnyho ochrance,jako jsem ja

v ME2 jsem sice sel do mirandy,ale vzapeti jsem hned v shadow brokerovi zase sbalil Liaru,bohuzel se ji trosku zmenila povaha oproti ME1,ale porad byla nejzajimavejsi ze vsech, Tali je sice taky dobra,ale pouze jako kamaradka

Kdyby měla o 20 kg míň tak by to bylo dobrý, jinak hezky udělaný ty "vlasy". No.. kg navíc se musí umět nosit, a já znám tragičtější případy než tadle dívčina. (ne sebe já sem vyhublá na kost)

A pár dobrých.

jo to mám ráda, takový to splácávání více her dohromady

Co je lepší



NEBO



Já jsem pro modrou

Máme rádi modrou.

Shepard + Liara-malí modrý "děti".

-Shepard-: Samozřejmě, že ta modrá.

Neomrzí.

Green píše:

Neomrzí.

Ani mna a trva to už 5 rokov

Na tenhle článek se dá říct akorát jedna věc... bless you

I had an epiphany this morning. I really don’t like Liara T’Soni.

The second part isn’t the actual epiphany itself, because I’ve never really cared for her but I could never figure out why she bother me so much other than she starts off as a bit creepy and desperate. The Mass Effect series is populated by this amazing cast of characters that, for the most part, are all likeable and memorable. While I don’t hate Liara because she’s morally corrupt or anything (like how some people dislike Ashley Williams for being xenophobic, or dislike Javik for being generally racist and kind of a massive jerk), there’s something about her that rubs me the wrong way. When I talk about her, usually one of the first things I do is compare her to another BioWare character: Leliana from the Dragon Age series, with whom I also have this problem of disliking her and not really fully understanding why. Because there’s thousands of people who like her! She has to have some redeeming qualities.

But this morning I think I finally solved the mystery as to why I just can’t get behind the Liara T’Soni Love Train:

She’s not actually a fully-formed character outside of romance.

Liara’s almost kind of got this cult-like adoration in parts of the general Mass Effect fandom that extends all the way up to the actual writers of the series. While there’s never been any official statement saying that Liara should be the player’s canon romance, there’s a lot of really heavy-handed forcing of the idea. Compared to the Virmire survivors in Mass Effect 2, Liara gets a lot of screentime—hell, there’s a whole DLC centred around her when she isn’t a major player in the rest of the game. Several pieces of the deuterocanonical media (Redemption, Paragon Lost, and Homeworlds) have a lot of Liara and not much to do with any other romanceable characters, and in that media, there’s a lot of emphasis on Liara’s borderline obsession with Shepard.

Even in-game, Liara has this kind of creepy fixation on Shepard. In the first game, it goes really quickly from professional curiosity re: Shepard’s exposure to the Prothean beacon to romantic inclination. I mean it’s really fast; in fact, it’s almost kind of instantaneous. It’s so quick that we don’t even really get an idea of Liara’s character outside of this attraction. Like with Leliana, there’s really no way toavoid having this wickedly awkward conversation involving her intentions because you simply look at the girl sideways for half a second and she’s in love.

That’s what bothers me the most: there really isn’t a Liara without Shepard. Everything she does in relation to the series has to do with Shepard in some way. The girl was trapped in a security field for Christ-knows how long before Shepard shows up on Therum, for goodness sake? If Shepard hadn’t shown up, Liara probably would have been either captured by Saren or have starved to death. When Shepard dies, Liara gives up her entire career as an archaeologist—something she studied to become for her entire life—to steal Shepard’s corpse and becomes an information broker. There was that whole thing with Feron, but… that never really went anywhere. When he messaged Shepard in Mass Effect 3, I literally had to look who he was up on the wiki even though I’ve played the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC more than six times.

When Liara becomes the Shadow Broker, one of the first things she says is how much her position as the new Broker can help Shepard. But once Shepard gets arrested and brought back to Earth, she lets her new empire more or less run itself while she obsesses over the Mars Archives… to help Shepard. Everything she does revolves around Shepard, and at some point, you have to admit that it gets a little weird. Every other character in the series can seem to get past Shepard’s death at the beginning of Mass Effect 2 except for Liara. Yes, they mourn, and yes, even the Virmire survivors flip their shit a bit on Horizon, but at least they tried to get over Shepard’s death. Garrus dedicates the rest of his life to trying to spread the justice that Shepard taught him to believe in (albeit he goes about it in kind of a twisted way), Tali returns to her people and is entrusted with projects that are pretty important to the future of the quarian people, Ashley/Kaidan get promoted (and Kaidan outright says that he was trying to “let himself have a life” again), and Wrex returns to Tuchanka to help his people (something he said he would never do). They remember Shepard in their own ways without letting their grief consume them.

Liara stole a corpse. From the Shadow Broker. And sold it to terrorists in exchange for the promise that they could do something about the whole ‘almost dead’ thing.

Liara knew about Cerberus’ anti-alien agenda. She knew about the horrific experiments that Kaidan/Ashley mention on Horizon that Shepard and the Normandy crew discovered over the course of Mass Effect. But in spite of that, she saw that if anyone could resurrect Shepard, it was Cerberus. In her mind, she was so desperate to have even the possibility of that, that she gave Shepard’s corpse to these people. She didn’t even anything that drastic for her own mother, but she was totally willing to risk Cerberus misusing Shepard’s body for completely nefarious purposes on the off-chance that it might have brought Shepard back.

Is that weird to anyone else but me? It’s weird, right? I’m not crazy?

Let’s talk about the whole mother thing for a second, now that I’ve gone and brought it up.

When Liara’s first introduced, the player (at least, I did) got the sense that Beneziah and Liara didn’t get along since Liara says that she hasn’t spoken to her mother in years. When Shepard kills her mother, Liara hardly grieves. She doesn’t yell at Shepard for hey, murdering her family, which kind of implies that the two of them weren’t really all that close. She has an initial reaction that was pretty heartbreaking (if the player chooses to take Liara with Shepard on Norveria), but after that? Not much. She says that she’s choosing to remember her mother as the beautiful, caring individual that she had been before she had met Saren. But not once does she blame Shepard for her mother’s death. In fact, she more or less blames Beneziah.

Look, I don’t care how mentally well-balanced you are. When some member of your family dies, you’re affected by it—whether it be for good or for worse. Liara wasn’t affected in the slightest. Given that, other than the whole thing with Saren and that they didn’t talk in years, Liara literally has nothing bad to say about her mother, I find it really, really, really strange that she doesn’t lash out at Shepard at all. Not even once. The only time she ever really actually yells at Shepard is in Lair of the Shadow Broker, and even then it’s not about her mother. It was, again, about Shepard and Shepard being dead.

The point is this: having a character who is so wrapped up in their significant other that they pretty much have nothing going on in their lives other than their significant other is kind of a bad thing. At the end of the day, if a character can’t stand on their own as a character without their romantic partner, then it’s not exactly good writing. It doesn’t make for a good character. More than anything, the Mass Effect series is a sci-fi series about facing impossible odds and overcoming them with romance as a sub-plot. If you look at the ending (meaning if you back up about 300 metres, tilt your head, squint your eyes, and spin around about sixty billion times before looking at it) it kind of reinforces the point that sometimes people have to make the ultimate sacrifices of life and love in order to save the lives of others. Liara’s obsession kind of flies in the face of that idea, I think. She can’t let the commander go at all. In her obsession, she loses herself and all sense of her as an individual.

Now, if it had been there intention to create this character who was so thoroughly obsessed with Shepard that their obsession takes over their entire life, then that’s fine. That could have actually been a pretty interesting point of development. But… I don’t think that was the intention with Liara’s characterisation. With her, I think it’s more about fantasy fulfilment than anything else. She’s a character who is subservient, a yes-man, wholly attentive to the person she loves, physically attractive, and compliant. She’s all-together too willing to let her own needs fall by the wayside for the sake of Shepard for her attachment to the commander to be healthy, I think.

With the kinds of things that happen to Liara, I think she could have turned out interesting. And there’s a way to write a character who is devoted to his/her partner totally without having that character lose themselves. The problem is that Liara never really had a character without Shepard in the first place. You never get a sense for her personality before she immediately tries to jump on the shag wagon, and following it after, it’s kind of all over the place.

She has her moments. I wanted to enjoy her transformation into the Shadow Broker, because she was going from this sort of weak-willed archaeologist to this supposedly badass information broker with a shadowy empire and puppeteers all the strings from the background, but I couldn’t because she wasn’t doing it for herself. She was doing it for Shepard, even though Shepard was dead.

And that’s pretty sad.

kromě toho s tou smrtí Benezie, je to dobry, to že ji nějak hystericky neoplakávala mi zase tak divny nepřijde asari jsou emzáci kteří žijou 1000 let od malička jsou učeny vyrovnávat se se smrtí kolem sebe, užívat si ten čas ktery s tim druhym stráví, a srovnávat je zase tak moc s lidma není uplně fér, zvláštní že po wrexovi nikdo nechtěl aby se rozbrečel když řešil svou rodinu....

uznávám pro mě byl taky hlavní důvod pro romanci ten její vzhled a hlas, no ale ted si užívám Garruse a je to stokrát lepší

To je moc pěkné počteníčko hned po ránu... Tohle jednoho nakopne víc než kafe.

Ale tohle mě fakt dostalo:

While there’s never been any official statement saying that Liara should be the player’s canon romance

Kdyby to tak mělo být, celá ME série by v mém případě okamžitě letěla z okna... škoda jen že bydlím v prvním patře... ale stejně se nemůžu zbavit dojmu, že tvůrcům ME by uvítali, kdyby všichni hráči měli romanci jen s Liarou... NEVER!!!

Lady Grey píše:To je moc pěkné počteníčko hned po ránu... Tohle jednoho nakopne víc než kafe.

Ale tohle mě fakt dostalo:

While there’s never been any official statement saying that Liara should be the player’s canon romance

Kdyby to tak mělo být, celá ME série by v mém případě okamžitě letěla z okna... škoda jen že bydlím v prvním patře... ale stejně se nemůžu zbavit dojmu, že tvůrcům ME by uvítali, kdyby všichni hráči měli romanci jen s Liarou... NEVER!!!

Jsem ráda, když můžu potěšit... mně se zas hezky usínalo... "She’s not actually a fully-formed character outside of romance." thank you

Haters!

EDIT:
Tenhle článek jsem už kdysi četl, nebo aspoň v jeho zkrácené formě.
Ono víceméně by se mi asi taky nelíbilo, kdyby byla kanon. Přecejenom, Mass Effect je o rozhodování.
Myslím, že někteří lidé to až zbytečně přehánějí. Pravda, že někteří mohou být diskriminování, protože ve finále bylo Liary víc než ostatních (ikdyž v ME2 vlastně vůbec původně nebyla, jen měla 3 hodinové DLC později).

Ono celkově, co mě (a i jiným) na ní fascinuje, tak ta proměna v jejím charakteru a dobré začlenění do finálního dílu. Ať si říká kdo chce, nějaké filozofování o tom, že je to vývojářský pet nebo že byla jako SB zbýtečná pro někoho apod., to je prostě tabu a odvěci. Úplně stejně by se dali řešit i ostatní charaktery např. Ashley, Tali..., ale pak si říkám, k čemu by to bylo? Možná právě proto zrušili na BSN charaktery a romance topiky.

Mám tu takovou citaci:
ME2: less Reapers - I hate you BioWare!
ME3: much more Reapers - I hate you BioWare!

ME2: less Liara - I hate you BioWare!
ME3: more Liara - I hate you BioWare!

ME2: more Miranda - What?! I hate you BioWare!
ME3: less Miranda - I hate you BioWare, where is she?

ME2: 12 squadmates - Why 12, it's too much! I hate you BioWare!
ME3: 6 squadmates - Why only 6 mates? I hate you BioWare!

ME2: Amazing ending - I love you BioWare!
ME3: Unspeakable drivel "ending" sh*t - I HATE YOU BioWare!!!
...

Taky nikomu nekecám do Tali a nešťourám se v tom, co na ní vidí.